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Comics Reading Club: Zob's Thoughts on Marvel Comics THE TRANSFORMERS #41
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Zobovor
2023-11-14 22:58:17 UTC
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THE TRANSFORMERS issue #41 is called "Totaled!" and this title is appropriate for a couple of different reasons!

This issue was printed on February 23, 1988, with a pull date of June 1988.  After a strong focus on new 1988 toys in the previous issue, this story focuses largely on 1984/85 characters.  Bob Budiansky wrote the issue, with José Delbo penciling the art, newcomer Danny Bulanadi inking the art, Bill Oakley doing the lettering, and as ever, Nel Yomtov coloring the art.  Danny Bulanadi (who just passed away in 2022) was both a comic book artist and animation storyboard artist, and he also worked on the Transformers G1 cartoon during season three!  He also notably illustrated a comic book adaptation of the Bible for Kingstone Comics.  He would go onto ink several more issues of TRANSFORMERS.

The front cover is off the hook, featuring a huge Transformers brawl with the greatest number of characters we've ever gotten on a cover up to this point.  José Delbo and Dave Hunt gave us this masterpiece, depicting a war on the Moon with the Earth and space in the background, and it features no fewer than 40 Transformers.  Blitzwing, Powerglide, Ramjet, Swoop, Vortex, Scattershot, Slingshot, Laserbeak, Thrust, Jetfire, Cosmos, Silverbolt, and Ratbat are all in the air, while the following Transformers battle on the ground: Hook, Kickback, Brawl, Bombshell, Fortress Maximus, Grimlock, Chromedome, Brainstorm, Doublecross, Smokescreen, Octane, Rampage, Soundwave, Nosecone, Goldbug, Hardhead, Hound, Blaster, Tracks, Trailbreaker, Omega Supreme, Sludge, Cloudburst, Waverider, and Prowl.   The only character I can't make a 100% positive identifcation is the guy who is mostly hidden by the UPC bar code box, but he's got treads on the back of his arms, so it's probably Warpath.

One character whose presence seems like an anomaly to me is Red Alert, who was never officially introduced into the comics and only ever seems to appear as an artwork mistake.  He appears on the cover colored like Sideswipe, since that's a character who turns into a Lamborghini who is actually part of the existing TRANSFORMERS character roster, whereas Red Alert is not.  There are a few other mistakes as well—Brainstorm is colored purple, for some reason, and Smokescreen is also shades of purple and pink.  Trailbreaker is colored green and orange, like Hoist.  Kickback is standing right behind Brawl in tank mode, but Bulanadi must have misinterpreted the pencil art, since Kickback is holding Brawl's dual-barreled cannon as if it were his own handheld weapon.  Still, considering the sheer number of characters making an appearance, the goofs are comparatively minimal.  

The story opens aboard Steelhaven, with a full splash page featuring Optimus Prime's body exploding, echoing the end of issue #24. The Autobots have attempted to build him a new body, but they simply didn't have the materials to do it, especially after having recently built Goldbug a new body and having created the six Autobot Pretenders.  Fortress Maximus and Brainstorm and Highbrow and Goldbug watch in horror as Optimus Prime explodes right before their eyes.  (It's interesting that this, then, is technically Optimus Prime's second body, albeit a very short-lived one.  His upcoming Powermaster form will be his third!)

Goldbug is still determined to restore Prime to life somehow.  After Hot Rod finally detects the Ark out in space, Fortress Maximus' crew suggests a rendezvous with the ship.  Fort Max realizes the Ark will have more resources to rebuild Optimus, and he figures Goldbug will surely be happy to see all his old shipmates again.  Goldbug, himself, is less than pleased at the prospect.  (This makes sense, given his character arc, but it's a total reversal from Goldbug's behavior in issue #37, when he supposedly can't wait to get to the Ark and see his old buddies.)

On board the Ark, Grimlock is lounging on a throne, wearing his crown and getting his teeth cleaned.  What a buffoon. Ratchet is protesting that they need to go back to Earth and protect the humans, but Grimlock won't hear of it.  When they receive the communique from Steelhaven and want to board, however, it rattles Grimlock's composure a bit.  (This is the first time Steelhaven is actually identified by name, incidentally.)  Fortress Maximus has brought his top-ranking soldiers with him, who he identifies as Targetmaster group leader Pointblank, Technobot group leader Scattershot, Pretender group leader Landmine, and information officer Grotusque.  (The Hasbro tech specs for Grotusque say that he's a military strategist, incidentally.)  Fort Max is cut off before he can identify Hardhead, but we can infer that Hardhead must be the Headmaster group leader.  Pointblank and Landmine are drawn wildly off-model, to the point where both are unidentifiable.  Pointblank is shaped like Kup with pointy ears, and Landmine either has a pointy cone head or an Aerialbot-style nosecone on his back.

When Grimlock points out that there's only one true Autobot leader, Fortress Maximus misunderstands him and infers he must be referring to Optimus Prime.  Fort Max asks permission to use the Ark to build Prime a new body so that they can upload the floppy disk containing his mind.  Ratchet starts gushing when he realizes Prime's mind still exists, but he gets clocked by Grimlock with a "SHUT UP, RATCHET!" for his troubles. (This really should be Wheeljack in the role of defying Grimlock, not Ratchet, since we know Wheeljack was already acting out against Grimlock in issue #36 when he called Sky Lynx for help. It would have been more internally consistent, anyway.)  

There's a great moment when Grimlock dismisses Prime as weak and worthless for trying to protect the humans, at which point Fortress Maximus detatches Cerebros, who in turn detatches Spike, revealing that he's the one in charge of Steelhaven and her crew.  "A human?!  Human commands Autobots?! NEVER!" balks Grimlock.  "Looks like never is NOW, commander!" Ratchet snaps back with delight.  Fort Max lets it slip that Goldbug helped them find the Ark, at which point Grimlock brands Goldbug as a traitor and demands his arrest.  

Grimlock can't seem to wrap his vocal components around Fortress Maximus' proper name, as he refers to him as "Fruitloop Multipuck" when he challenges him to a fight to determine the supremacy of the Autobots.  Fortress Maximus checks his memory banks and realizes the challenge is legitimate and steeped in Autobot tradition, although it's an older way of settling things that is considered primitive and uncouth by modern-day Autobot sensibilities.  He returns to Steelhaven to decide his next move.

Goldbug is thrown into the brig where he finds Blaster already imprisoned, strapped to the variable voltage harness that Grimlock had the Autobots build specifically as a torture machine for Blaster.  He explains how he no longer cares about Autobot affairs, and he also mentions the Spacehikers vanished and haven't been heard from (a major plot point that will be addressed in a future issue).  Goldbug realizes Fortress Maximus is too badly damaged still to ever be able to beat Grimlock, so he suggests that Blaster volunteer as a stand-in.  He encourages Blaster to do it, not for the benefit of the Autobots, but for himself—to get revenge on Grimlock for imprisoning him.  Fortress Maximus begrudgingly accepts the challenge, but Grimlock responds, "No need, Forktongue Maxiface!  A champion steps forward to fight in your place!"  

Elsewhere, aboard the Decepticon flying island base, Soundwave reports to Ratbat that he has tracked Fortress Maximus to Steelhaven, and has found both Steelhaven and the Ark parked on the Moon.  It's certainly strange to see Soundwave acting in a subservient role to one of his own cassettes!  It's also odd that Soundwave and Ratbat are the same purple color, but that's not a new observation.  Also, Soundwave is very strangely drawn with a normal mouth, rather than a mask, which will tend to be José Delbo's default style.  It seems to be a misinterpretation of a smudge present on Soundwave's mask in his TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE profile. Ratbat delights in the idea of an efficient attack that will wipe out the crews of both crafts simultaneously.

Grimlock's group of Autobots pour out of the Ark, with only Sludge, Slag, and Swoop seeming to look forward to the ensuing brawl.  Snarl isn't name-dropped here, but I don't think this was a mistake by Budiansky.  His tech specs describe specifically how he hates warfare, so the mistake would have been to lump him in with the other carnage-loving Dinobots.

This page was the source of the 'Bot Roster contest, in which readers were invited to identify all the characters and could potentially win prizes.  It was made more challenging by the fact that only seven characters out of 34 were colored accurately, with the rest blocked out in light blue.  A contest of this nature would also be heavily dependent upon the artists actually drawing the characters accurately, something that they struggled with even in this very issue.  But, the group consists of Tracks, Slingshot, Perceptor, Silverbolt, Sideswipe, Trailbreaker, Skydive, Wheeljack, Smokescreen, Skyfire, Ironhide, Mirage, Powerglide, Skids, Windcharger, Sunstreaker, Seaspray, Blue Streak, Hound, Hoist, Jazz, Prowl, Air Raid, Beachcomber, Brawn, Cliffjumper, Grapple, Swoop, Sludge, Slag, Fireflight, Gears, Cosmos, and Ratchet.

Notably, Warpath is absent from this line-up.  There are a handful of artwork mistakes as well—Slingshot seems to have two jet nosecones, one on each shoulder.  Trailbreaker is missing his shoulder-mounted gear, and Wheeljack is missing his rocket launcher as well as his wings.  Jetfire is tiny, and is the same size as Smokescreen and Mirage.  Huffer inexplicably appears here in a very early model, the same one used for TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE, in which the truck cab behind his robot head is rounded instead of squared-off.  Almost everybody present except for Jazz and Ratchet is missing their Autobot symbol.  

This does represent a signficantly changed premise, however, as it seems that now every single Autobot originally a member of the Ark's crew are active and fully functional again.  We could infer that Blaster's group must have been reconstructed, since we saw them working on the variable voltage harness earlier, but this is the first time we've seen the Aerialbots active since they were dismantled by Circuit Breaker, and also the first time we've seen many of the 1984 Autobots up and about since their deactivation.  What happened to most of them being in stasis pods and Ratchet lacking the parts to bring them back to full function?  What happened to Prowl barely clinging to life in issue #26?  

Let's talk about this s'more. When the 1985 toys were being introduced, issue #14 made a huge deal about how most of the 1984 characters would probably never be restored to operational status again.  It was a necessary move by Budiansky to push the older toys out of the picture so the newer ones could enjoy the limelight.  But, we're at a point now where that seems to have been reversed, and he was like, "There are well over 100 Transformers at this point, so what the heck, let's just feature ALL of them."  (The only faction missing is Scorponok's Decepticons. Imagine how crowded this issue would have been if they'd shown up as well!)

The Protectobots are also absent from this group shot, which again strongly suggests that Grimlock did something horrible to them.  But, they didn't get thrown into the brig with Blaster, or we would have seen them in this issue.  Is it possible Grimlock simply had them executed?  They're just about the only Autobot characters who are completely unaccounted for at this point (though Streetwise does appear in a background scene later).  It seems unlikely Budiansky just plain forgot about them. It's possible he was planning something for them that never panned out (which I think might have also been the case with Inferno and Red Alert).

There's another, similar 'Bot Roster type scene in which Fortress Maximus and his group disembark from Steelhaven, but it's a smaller panel with more indistinct artwork, and it's harder to make clear identifications of every character. I can make out Waverider, Lightspeed, Hot Rod, Pointblank, Sureshot, somebody with stripes on his chest, Grotusque, probably Strafe, somebody who looks like Powerglide to me but I know it's not, Nosecone, Repugnus, Afterburner, Kup, Blurr, Sky High, Brainstorm, Highbrow, Hardhead, Chromedome, Fortress Maximus, Scattershot, and Crosshairs.  The guy coming down the ramp might be Doublecross.  There seem to be several Pretenders missing.  Blurr is weirdly round.

Only three Autobots are left aboard Steelhaven as a skeleton crew, guys we've never seen before named Slapdash and Joyride and Getaway.  Hmm, seems like Budiansky is setting up for a Powermasters story.  

Omega Supreme initiates the proceedings, and then Grimlock and Blaster begin the duel.  Grimlock is determined to slice Blaster in half with his energo-sword, with Blaster dispensing clever quips and the other Autobots offering support from the sidelines (Huffer appears again with that weird rounded truck cab on his back).  Sunstreaker and Ironhide both seem to know Blaster by name, despite the fact that they were both inactive by the time he came to Earth.  It's also worth mentioning that both Outback and Broadside make crowd appearances despite having received no introduction in the comics.  It's probable that José Delbo had simply been leafing through the TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE profiles or the model sheets used to create them, and went, "oh, these characters exist" and just drew them as crowdfillers without worrying about the ramifications.  

The Decepticons launch a full-scale attack on the Autobots, with only the Constructicons diverting to accomplish another task.  This still leaves Onslaught leading the assault with the rest following him—Soundwave, Shrapnel, Octane, Brawl, Razorclaw, Ramjet, Drag Strip, Breakdown, Swindle, Bombshell, Headstrong, Blitzwing, Astrotrain, Laserbeak, Tantrum, Kickback, Dead End, Thrust, Rampage, Motormaster, Vortex, and Wildrider.  It took some accurate planning to tally up who would have been available for this battle and who would not.  Unlike the Autobots, nobody in the Decepticon group strikes me as alarmingly out of place.  The scene is not without its errors—the lion's face on Razorclaw's chest is missing completely, and Vortex's rotors are spinning, in robot mode, despite being in space where there's no atmosphere for his helicopter blades to push against.  

Elsewhere, the Constructicons tear into the Ark to recover their wayward Decepticon comrades, destroyed by Omega Supreme and kept in cold storage since issue #19.  How did the Constructicons know the deactivated bodies were inside the Ark? I dunno. The narration describes the group as being led by Bonecrusher, but the artwork shows Scrapper taking the lead.

We see crates containing the remains of Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, Buzzsaw, Frenzy, and one who is partially obscured but we can infer is Rumble.  Long Haul claims that there are "lots more of these damaged Deceps to unload," but the only ones I can think of who might qualify are Blast Off (who is still in Autobot possession following the Spacehiker adventures) and Dirge (if there's anything left of him after being blown to bits in G.I. JOE AND THE TRANSFORMERS).  There shouldn't be anybody else.  A strict reading of the artwork shows there's a crate that Buzzsaw is stacked on top of that isn't identified.

The Autobots are getting their asses handed to them, or at least Grimlock's crew is.  Jetfire is shot down by Vortex and Laserbeak; Smokescreen is gunned down by Soundwave ("your death screams would be music to my audio modules... if only I could hear them in this vaccuum!") and, poetically, Brawn gets blasted into pieces by a rival Jeep named Swindle.  Fortress Maximus realizes that while Steelhaven is being guarded, Grimlock has left nobody aboard the Ark to defend it, and the Constructicons have torn it apart.  He orders Goldbug to board Steelhaven and flee.

Meanwhile, Blaster and Grimlock continue to fight when they finally notice the commotion caused by the Decepticon assault.  At first Grimlock accuses it of being a trick by "Fullstrength Motleypuss" until Blaster convinces him otherwise.  Blaster and Grimlock quickly set aside their differences so they can join the fight.  Grimlock is at the top of his form, shooting missiles right through Drag Strip's body and slicing Blitzwing right in half at the waist.  Blaster's electro-scrambler gun can't penetrate the defense shields of the Decepticon island craft, so he and Grimlock arrange to work in tandem, with Grimlock lobbing his energo-sword at the ship and creating an opening that Blaster uses to scramble the ship's guidance systems.  With the ship malfunctining, Ratbat recalls the Decepticons back to the craft and they make their escape.

With the battle over and Grimlock and Blaster having resolved their dispute, it now remains to repair the damaged Autobots as well as the Ark.  When Grimlock suggests using Steelhaven to help (and even gets Fortress Maximus' name right when he asks), Fort Max laments that he had to send Goldbug and Steelhaven away to Nebulos, realizing it was the only such place they would ever be able to rebuild Optimus Prime and give the Autobots what they've been missing and needing—a truly worthy leader.

Weirdly, this effectively strands all the Autobots on the Moon for several issues, allowing for some Autobot-free hijinx to take place, like Skullgrin becoming a movie star or the Roadjammers terrorizing the streets, of which the Autobots will seemingly remain completely oblivious.  

But, this is honestly a great issue.  An epic Transformer battle with lots of old favorites reappearing, and unlike so many stories written by Budiansky, it focuses on the Transformer characters themselves instead of the humans.  I get that a good percentage of the characters transform into Earth vehicles so the story necessitates that it takes place on Earth, but this is an issue of the comic that proves that this doesn't always have to be the case!

In additon to the aforementioned 'Bot Roster contest, Marvel also promoted the "Spot the Shingo" contest in this issue's letters page.  Shingo was allegedly a fan who had written into the letters page and the Marvel staff became positively obsessed with him for some reason, to the point where they claimed that Shingo had supposedly snuck his name into the Marvel artwork itself.  The letters page for this issue shows one of them (the computer lights next to Hot Rod that spell out "SHINGO" in a blocky font) but they challenged readers to find the other place where Shingo had left his mark.  (It turned out to be on the lunar crater behind Steelhaven on page 10.)

What I find even more interesting about the letters page was that a drawing of Sinnertwin was included, probably just to use up empty space.  But, it's clearly his character model, which theoretically should have been the first hint that the second volume of TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE was on its way.  We never got that, though, and instead the new profiles started appearing in the backs of almost every issue of TRANSFORMERS. Ironically, even though there's evidence they were inking his model sheets, Sinnertwin himself never got an official TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE profile at all! They went to all the trouble to ink that illustration and never ended up using it. Sad face.

Perhaps not surprisingly, next issue promises the return of Optimus Prime as well as the (proper) introduction of the Powermasters. We'll talk about that issue in 30 days!


Zob (the sound of ripping metal is music to my audio modules)
Optim
2023-11-19 21:43:57 UTC
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This does represent a signficantly changed premise, however, as it seems that now every single Autobot originally a member of the Ark's crew are active and fully functional again. We could infer that Blaster's group must have been reconstructed, since we saw them working on the variable voltage harness earlier, but this is the first time we've seen the Aerialbots active since they were dismantled by Circuit Breaker, and also the first time we've seen many of the 1984 Autobots up and about since their deactivation. What happened to most of them being in stasis pods and Ratchet lacking the parts to bring them back to full function? What happened to Prowl barely clinging to life in issue #26?
Maybe Grimlock had something to do with it? He may have bullied the Autobots to take what they need from the puny humans to repair their comrades and also rebuild the Ark for space flight. Grimlock was not all bad as a leader. He does not have Optimus's weakness in that he is not compassionate about the Earth and its inhabitants.
Let's talk about this s'more. When the 1985 toys were being introduced, issue #14 made a huge deal about how most of the 1984 characters would probably never be restored to operational status again. It was a necessary move by Budiansky to push the older toys out of the picture so the newer ones could enjoy the limelight. But, we're at a point now where that seems to have been reversed, and he was like, "There are well over 100 Transformers at this point, so what the heck, let's just feature ALL of them." (The only faction missing is Scorponok's Decepticons. Imagine how crowded this issue would have been if they'd shown up as well!)
I may be in the minority but I liked reading about new characters instead of retreading old characters. I would have liked stories featuring the Pretenders, Micromasters and Action Masters instead of the 1984-85 Transformers group even though the 1984-85 is my favourite TF era.

When characters die, they should stay dead. Optimus, Megatron, Ravage, Battlechargers, Shockwave, even Iguanus all had great deaths. They should have stayed dead and new characters should have been featured more. The only TF that has stayed dead in the original Marvel comic was Ratbat, and I liked him.
The Protectobots are also absent from this group shot, which again strongly suggests that Grimlock did something horrible to them. But, they didn't get thrown into the brig with Blaster, or we would have seen them in this issue. Is it possible Grimlock simply had them executed? They're just about the only Autobot characters who are completely unaccounted for at this point (though Streetwise does appear in a background scene later). It seems unlikely Budiansky just plain forgot about them. It's possible he was planning something for them that never panned out (which I think might have also been the case with Inferno and Red Alert).
Sadly, another possibility is that the Combaticons killed the Protectobots. The last time the Protectobots were seen the Combaticons were their prisoners. But the Combaticons were heavily featured in #41. Octane was leading the Decepticon assault on the mooon.
Elsewhere, the Constructicons tear into the Ark to recover their wayward Decepticon comrades, destroyed by Omega Supreme and kept in cold storage since issue #19. How did the Constructicons know the deactivated bodies were inside the Ark? I dunno. The narration describes the group as being led by Bonecrusher, but the artwork shows Scrapper taking the lead.
He should take the lead since he is the leader of the Constructicons.
We see crates containing the remains of Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, Buzzsaw, Frenzy, and one who is partially obscured but we can infer is Rumble. Long Haul claims that there are "lots more of these damaged Deceps to unload," but the only ones I can think of who might qualify are Blast Off (who is still in Autobot possession following the Spacehiker adventures) and Dirge (if there's anything left of him after being blown to bits in G.I. JOE AND THE TRANSFORMERS). There shouldn't be anybody else. A strict reading of the artwork shows there's a crate that Buzzsaw is stacked on top of that isn't identified.
There is also Reflector.
With the battle over and Grimlock and Blaster having resolved their dispute, it now remains to repair the damaged Autobots as well as the Ark. When Grimlock suggests using Steelhaven to help (and even gets Fortress Maximus' name right when he asks), Fort Max laments that he had to send Goldbug and Steelhaven away to Nebulos, realizing it was the only such place they would ever be able to rebuild Optimus Prime and give the Autobots what they've been missing and needing—a truly worthy leader.
I always got the impression that Grimlock was intentionally misprononcing his name to mock him until he finally respected him by asking for his help.
Zobovor
2023-11-19 22:48:10 UTC
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Post by Optim
Maybe Grimlock had something to do with it? He may have bullied the Autobots to take what they need from the puny humans to repair their comrades and also rebuild the Ark for space flight. Grimlock was not all bad as a leader. He does not have Optimus's weakness in that he is not compassionate about the Earth and its inhabitants.
I'm just surprised that it wasn't addressed in any real capacity. The comic made a big deal about the fact that dozens of Autobots were in stasis and emphasized Ratchet's inability to bring them back to full functionality. So, it's clear something changed, but it's hard to say just what.
Post by Optim
I may be in the minority but I liked reading about new characters instead of retreading old characters. I would have liked stories featuring the Pretenders, Micromasters and Action Masters instead of the 1984-85 Transformers group even though the 1984-85 is my favourite TF era.
I'm kind of two minds about this. After the cartoon got taken off the air, Marvel Comics was the only way to enjoy the adventures of any characters from 1988 and beyond. So, I was definitely in favor of the contemporary toys appearing in the comic book. Given that the comic was, at least in part, meant to be advertising for the toys, it made perfect sense.

At the same time, though, the cartoon breathed life into the characters in a way that the comic book never could. It's just a limitation of the medium. I imagine most of us "hear" the cartoon voices for Starscream, Grimlock, Jazz, etc. even when they appear on the comics page. The comic book failed to take advantage of this under Budiansky's direction, most of the time. It wasn't until Simon Furman came along that a lot of the 1984-85 characters were ressurected, though I guess you could argue that, on a long enough timeline, if there had been more issues with the Action Masters in them, we would have seen all the old favorites come back eventually anyway.
Post by Optim
When characters die, they should stay dead. Optimus, Megatron, Ravage, Battlechargers, Shockwave, even Iguanus all had great deaths.
Budiansky had a good point about how since these are robots, "death" to them doesn't mean the same as it does to us. To bring a "dead" robot back to life, all you have to do is build them a new body and upload a copy of their personality. So, it makes sense for deactivated robot characters to be able to come back.

Secondary to the Hasbro mandate to sell toys, though, the comic should be driven by good stories. If a character's death makes a story better, then I'm all for it. But, if a character being brought back makes for a compelling story, then I'm fine with that, too. And, for what it's worth, my favorite issues of the comic book are the final dozen or so under Furman's direction, which heavily featured the likes of Megatron, Ratchet, Shockwave, Starscream, Grimlock, Prowl, etc. Those characters mean a lot more to me than Octopunch or Cloudburst or Hosehead.
Post by Optim
Sadly, another possibility is that the Combaticons killed the Protectobots. The last time the Protectobots were seen the Combaticons were their prisoners.
Hmm, interesting. I would have expected Blaster and the Protectobots to have shared the same fate, since they were all deserters and Grimlock would have wanted all of them executed or at least imprisoned. That's why their disappearance is so puzzling. Nobody even talks about the fact that they're gone.
Post by Optim
Post by Zobovor
A strict reading of the artwork shows there's a crate that Buzzsaw is stacked on top of that isn't identified.
There is also Reflector.
I mean, yes, but no? Budiansky never considered Reflector a part of the cast. He never got a TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE profile, he was never name-checked at any point in the comics, and he never got a death scene. I'm sure he was just thrown into the artwork because his character model existed, but he was essentially just a nameless Decepticon technician who disappeared after the mini-series, just like the crowdfiller Decepticons in the cartoon disappeared after the pilot episode.

And even after the Constructicons have collected the crates filled with deactivated Decepticons, we never see Reflector at any point during the Underbase saga, so there's that.
Post by Optim
I always got the impression that Grimlock was intentionally misprononcing his name to mock him until he finally respected him by asking for his help.
If Grimlock were smarter, maybe. I'm not convinced that he's clever enough to make that kind of joke. I really think he was just remembering Fort Max's name as "big long word that starts with F and then another big long word that starts with M" but had a tough time figuring out what those big, long words actually were.


Zob (Flimflam Melancholy)
Avaran
2023-11-20 09:48:51 UTC
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Post by Optim
Sadly, another possibility is that the Combaticons killed the Protectobots. The last time the Protectobots were seen the Combaticons were their prisoners.
Hmm, interesting. I would have expected Blaster and the Protectobots to have shared the same fate, since they were all deserters and Grimlock would have wanted all of them executed or at least imprisoned. That's why their disappearance is so puzzling. Nobody even talks about the fact that they're gone.
Well, they are present in the Generation 2 comic written by Furman, so he did not seem to consider them dead at least...
Joseph Bardsley
2023-11-21 04:30:04 UTC
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Post by Avaran
Post by Optim
Sadly, another possibility is that the Combaticons killed the Protectobots. The last time the Protectobots were seen the Combaticons were their prisoners.
Hmm, interesting. I would have expected Blaster and the Protectobots to have shared the same fate, since they were all deserters and Grimlock would have wanted all of them executed or at least imprisoned. That's why their disappearance is so puzzling. Nobody even talks about the fact that they're gone.
Well, they are present in the Generation 2 comic written by Furman, so he did not seem to consider them dead at least...
I was just about to comment this same thing. I definitely remember Blades (alongside Sideswipe) in the first issue of the G2 comic.

Plus, didn't Hotspot sacrifice himself to forestall specific technology becoming acquired by G2 Megatron and co.?

JB
Zobovor
2023-11-21 04:30:44 UTC
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Post by Avaran
Well, they are present in the Generation 2 comic written by Furman, so he did not seem to consider them dead at least...
Yeah, but G2 was kind of like a soft reboot. Lots of dead characters like Dirge and Runabout and Fangry were de-unalived, mostly so they could be gratuitously unalived again...


Zob (had Taco Bell for dinner, and boy was THAT a mistake)
GoBackaTron
2024-11-26 06:19:31 UTC
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Post by Zobovor
The story opens aboard Steelhaven, with a full splash page featuring
Optimus Prime's body exploding, echoing the end of issue #24.
Hey whoa hold on-what is it about a Transformer body that makes it
prone to exploding if it isn't properly completed? Is there a window of
time where an incomplete body might spontaneously explode? And at what
point did the Creation Matrix stop being a factor in bestowing life into
new Transformers? Is the Optimus Prime floppy disk alive? I think I have
some catching up to do. I haven't read these in 40 years and I was just
a dumb kid who wasn't paying attention the first time around.
Post by Zobovor
The Autobots have attempted to build him a new body, but they simply
didn't
have the materials to do it, especially after having recently built
Goldbug a new body and having created the six Autobot Pretenders.
If materials were an issue I don't know why they didn't just make him
a Throttlebot body or something small. If Ratbat could lead then any
size or alt mode should be fine. I don't know why they had to go with
Optimus' traditional size body.
Post by Zobovor
 (This makes sense, given his
character arc, but it's a total reversal from Goldbug's behavior in
issue #37, when he supposedly can't wait to get to the Ark and see his
old buddies.)
Goldbug's all over the place constantly contradicting himself. In #40
he's all upset that Optimus is stuck in a computer and has a bad quality
of life, yet in this issue he's willing to painfully poison Prime to
death for real. Then he's remembering being at Prime's funeral when he
never was. I think something got lost in translation when Bumblebee
became Goldbug. Something scrambled his circuits.
Post by Zobovor
 Ratchet starts gushing when he realizes Prime's mind still exists, but
he gets clocked by Grimlock with a "SHUT UP, RATCHET!" for his troubles.
I never really liked Grimlock as Autobot leader once he made his heel
turn shortly after getting chosen. Little stuff like this just made the
guy irredeemable to me. He should have respected Ratchet not only out of
gratitude for reactivating him after millions of years, but also as a
warrior who beat Megatron when the Dinpbots couldn't.
Post by Zobovor
Elsewhere, the Constructicons tear into the Ark to recover their wayward
Decepticon comrades, destroyed by Omega Supreme and kept in cold storage
since issue #19.  How did the Constructicons know the deactivated bodies
were inside the Ark? I dunno.
Lasberbeak was the last survivor of the Omega Supreme massacre so
maybe he told Ratbat the deactivated Deceipticons were likely to have
been stored away? That's stretching a bit. I remember as a kid thinking
the Constructicons were on a mission to destroy the Ark but then they
just got lucky and rescued the remains when they found them. Must've
been easy to find them with those giant names on the boxes. But why
would the Autobots keep the remains of their enemies in the first place?
And why would they write the names in giant english letters on the
boxes?
Post by Zobovor
it now remains to repair the damaged Autobots as well as the
Ark.
I wonder if all the Decepticon carcasses littering the moon could be
used as spare parts for the fallen Autobots. But I guess if the Autobots
didn't use the bodies of the guys Omega Supreme trashed way back then
all these fresh dead bodies were going to waste as well. The Steelhaven
didn't have to leave the moon-they could'a landed after the battle and
put Prime's head on Motormaster's dead body and called it good.
Zobovor
2024-11-26 19:51:21 UTC
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Post by GoBackaTron
Hey whoa hold on-what is it about a Transformer body that makes it
prone to exploding if it isn't properly completed? Is there a window of
time where an incomplete body might spontaneously explode? And at what
point did the Creation Matrix stop being a factor in bestowing life
into new Transformers?
If you're asking why they didn't use the Creation Matrix to bring
Optimus Prime back to life, I think it was only able to create new
Transformers, not ressurect dead ones.

And it's hard to say exactly why Prime's body exploded. I guess it's
like trying to build a house but you don't have the right materials.
You don't have lumber, but maybe you can just use some old telephone
poles. You run out of nails, but maybe you can just use duct tape.
There isn't enough mortar to lay bricks, but maybe some mud will work.
What you end up with might look like a house, but it won't last too
long.
Post by GoBackaTron
I think something got lost in translation when Bumblebee became
Goldbug. Something scrambled his circuits.
Well, it's not like those G.I. Joes had the faintest idea what they were
doing!
Post by GoBackaTron
I never really liked Grimlock as Autobot leader once he made his heel
turn shortly after getting chosen. Little stuff like this just made the
guy irredeemable to me.
Yeah, I hated his tenure as leader and I was so glad when that wasn't a
thing any longer. Except, of course, Simon Furman ended up writing an
arc where Grimlock became leader *again* and that honestly bugged me,
too.
Post by GoBackaTron
I remember as a kid thinking the Constructicons were on a mission to
destroy the Ark but then they just got lucky and rescued the remains
when they found them. Must've been easy to find them with those giant
names on the boxes. But why would the Autobots keep the remains of
their enemies in the first place?
I can only assume that outright destroying the Decepticons violated the
Autobots' ideals. Obviously, both sides are trying to win the war, but
it's never made crystal clear what the Autobot version of winning the
war even looks like.

Maybe Optimus Prime was envisioning a future where Megatron was defeated
or destroyed, and then he would awaken all those deactivated Decepticons
and go, "Look, your leader is toast. You guys can either live in peace
with us Autobots, or you can stay dead" and give them a choice. But
obliterating the defeated Decepticons with zero hope of repair doesn't
seem very Autobot-like.
Post by GoBackaTron
I wonder if all the Decepticon carcasses littering the moon could be
used as spare parts for the fallen Autobots.
If you accept TRANSFORMERS: GENERATION 2 as a direct continuation of G1,
then the Decepticons must have scooped up those bodies from the Moon,
since all the 1984-85 Decepticons eventually appear in the G2 comics.
But, given Budiansky's tendency to keep very careful track of which
characters were alive and which ones were not, there sure were an awful
lot of Decepticons who fell through the cracks. The Insecticons,
Stunticons, Combaticons, they all just vanished. No death scenes, no
nuthin'. It's like the opposite of what happened in the cartoon, where
a bunch of Autobots went missing after the movie but pretty much all the
Decepticons were still accounted for.


Zob (and the Protectobots are still a big mystery)
GoBackaTron
2024-11-27 02:34:06 UTC
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Post by Zobovor
And it's hard to say exactly why Prime's body exploded. I guess it's
like trying to build a house but you don't have the right materials.
Apparently the only materials the Autobots had lying around were
explodium grenades and gasoline. Suddenly Six Gun makes total sense.
Post by Zobovor
Well, it's not like those G.I. Joes had the faintest idea what they were
doing!
It would not surprise me if Goldbug's face fell off and revealed two
GI Joes furiously pulling levers and talking into a bullhorn still in
character. It would explain a lot.
Post by Zobovor
Obviously, both sides are trying to win the war, but
it's never made crystal clear what the Autobot version of winning the
war even looks like..
Cybertronians have that third state between life and death so I
guess Optimus always figured he could strip their brains out and leave
them in stasis in some sort of vault. But yeah he would be dumb enough
to take them at their word that they'd behave and just let them go
regroup.
Post by Zobovor
Zob (and the Protectobots are still a big mystery)
Well, if you accept TRANSFORMERS: GENERATION 2 as a direct
continuation of G1...

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